dont play with same IP but different devices, even though 2 people are playing

[starry]

ajiflare = moumantai's gene




babiyvchannel = under bong's account




I think this SS because i was about to reset stat point , that is why i SS it for record , but accidently SS moumantai's gene in screen too

I guessing this will be sufficient proof to show were 2 player

Because there is no reason for him to create 2 gene and gear up in 2 diff acc?

[hellohithere]

Hello.. sorry i have a question..

What if the case is you share accounts with your partner? Since we log onto each other’s account/accounts doesnt that look like we’re one person in the eye of the system?

I did ask this once using @request and was told that its fine if its different device.

But like for example sometimes i have to log on to her account to get something, or vice versa.. and if its based on login history, doesnt that make us one person in the eye of the system..?

Thank you in advance to anyone answering this.. i just need clarification

[aaaaa]

Hello.. sorry i have a question..

What if the case is you share accounts with your partner? Since we log onto each other’s account/accounts doesnt that look like we’re one person in the eye of the system?

I did ask this once using @request and was told that its fine if its different device.

But like for example sometimes i have to log on to her account to get something, or vice versa..  and if its based on login history, doesnt that make us one person in the eye of the system..?

Thank you in advance to anyone answering this.. i just need clarification

hello, im also not sure. better ask gm because its too unclear

[Xileria]

Hello.. sorry i have a question..

What if the case is you share accounts with your partner? Since we log onto each other’s account/accounts doesnt that look like we’re one person in the eye of the system?

I did ask this once using @request and was told that its fine if its different device.

But like for example sometimes i have to log on to her account to get something, or vice versa..  and if its based on login history, doesnt that make us one person in the eye of the system..?

Thank you in advance to anyone answering this.. i just need clarification

I actually explained this already but alright i'll explain it again.

There is honestly no problem with players playing with their brother, sister and so on or their partners.


GM uses a lot of checks to verify the ownership of the account.
Account credentials - check by the admins.
number of logins - to avoid if they are newly created alts
Login history - where it is getting logged. When it's getting logged.
Device ID -  which device it is frequently getting logged. If it's getting logged more frequently on 1 device at the same time with other account, then it will be likely gonna get considered that those accounts have 1 owner. Just think about it, if they are logged on same device at the same time it's very difficult for GM to assume it's not owned by a single person. 
etc.. 

Again this case is unique. Otherwise a lot could have already got banned for it. 

The problem with this case is because the GM assumed that the account is under the same person after it got banned for dual clienting in dice. It means at one point in time, these 2 accounts that got banned today was logged on same device, same IP used by 1 person and they abused something.

As much as they don't want it to be related in this case, it's a supporting evidence that GM uses and it's a valid one. It will give GM a reasonable suspicion that the account is owned by the same person. Unless these accounts made an appeal back then explaining it. How do you guys expect the GM to suddenly realize that the account was not owned by the same person after it once got banned for dual clienting in an event? 

In short unless you used your partner account to abuse similar event like dice, survival, etc, it's very unlikely that you'll get banned for it. Additionally if your account got banned because someone used it for dual clienting and so on, it's very important to make an appeal for that account separately. It might not help you get away with the ban, but it will at least help the GM have an idea of what happened there. Don't expect GM's to magically realize you don't own those accounts. 

lmfao, i got banned by dice once , yet we have a player from staff team that was banned in dro due to being gm and hades abuse. yet hes still staff? the past doesnt matter, even if i did dual in dice once i already explained everything and i even have a witness that i was chatting with arhi with same ip and device. as ive said the dice evidence shouldnt be linked to here, cause it is totally unrelated.  players can say why this player is even sp when he got banned in dro as a gm for abuse? regardless, fak it

Personally I don't know his case because I am most likely inactive that time, so who am I to judge him? As far as I am concerned if you are talking about the person you are complaining earlier, then he was accepted as staff back in past server by the past admin himself. Just saying that if anyone else knows better whether he deserve to be a staff or not it should be Haze himself. If you want to complain about his qualification, i guess asked the past admin about it.

Now if he get caught or banned for anything of similar nature, naturally that case will be used as an evidence too. That's how these previous offenses work

[soulkaizer]

If you are aware of your situation and the current rules regarding dual clienting. You could've prevented this by a notification in the forums or via helpdesk stating that you are playing w/ your brother and could've gotten a go permission from the admin or staff. But you insisted on neglecting that which resulted in to you snd your brother getting banned.

Bringing up past issues won't solve your case. You're just being negative at this point. Saying you don't care anymore but keeps on reiterating things that shouldn't even be related to this one just to make yourself look innocent. Since it's your case and yours alone to justify. And why make this issue public anyways.

You could've prevented this from happening. But you chose not to. Don't blame the staff. Blame yourself for be negligent of the rules of the server.

[Green Cross]

sounds to me like a bawling cry baby that got banned cos they didnt read the rules and went ahead to public cos thats the only way his friends can defend for him but ended up still failiing cos all they did is be toxic and cry and waa waa waa until the very end

i dont fish but at least i know that 2 accounts under 1 ip is always suspected for dual
and last time i did that with friends in a computer cafe we were all moving together so its obvs that we are not dual

you keep digging your hole lol

at this pt just ban him forever

you dont want a guy like this in your server
trust me

[Tyrannical]

As for internet cafes, for the most part there's nothing wrong with playing in there. We can always check and see whether the accounts playing in a cafe (or should I say the same IP address) are owned by one person or by different people.

- The Question, how reliable is the method of investigation, how reliable the result would it be? if based on the comments I've seen is about the highlighted quoted below. 

Now is it illegal to fish under 1 IP?

It depends on the accounts or better, the 'believed to be' owner of the accounts. "There is no real way for GM's to determine who is controlling an account on another device", that's why its important that an account is distinguishable from each other. Anyone can claim that it was their brother, their sister, their friend that uses the account. A GM can't tell that. That's why it depends mostly on the account. If an account is named Xileria1 and Xileria2 and they play on 2 different devices, even different IPs, it will immediately fall under suspicion. Rarely some players are caught with it, but it does happen. 

-This is in line with my previous comment about playing in an internet cafe.
Example. I have 10 PC Clients and I have 5 Ragnarok Players. All PC clients have RO installed.

Day 1:
RO player 1 sits on PC 1, RO Player 2 sits on PC 2, RO player sits on PC3, RO Player sits on PC4, RO Player sits on PC5. PC6~10 is occupied by NON-RO players.

Day 2: 
RO player 1 and 3 is absent/not around. 
PC 2 and PC 4 , PC6~10 are occupied by NON-RO Players.
And RO Player 2,4 and 5 are present. And they are only able to sit and use on the available PC's.
RO Player 2 sits on PC1, where RO Player 1 recently used it.
RO Player 4 sits on PC 3, where RO Player 3 recently used it.
RO player 5 sits on the same PC he recently used.

Day 3~etc.

So, if we will check on the logs, the Accounts are logged will have the same IP address and have multiple Device IDs recorded over the time.
How would you guys evaluate this scenario? if basing on this statement:

"Additionally, upon checking the account history of 2 accused accounts, I found out the account was frequently logged on same device in the past. In short in the eyes of GM's, this account is most likely owned by a single player."

I just want to know because I really want to install RO in my internet cafe.

***

So what's the problem with your case? Upon my own investigation, the problem with your account is because as claire stated it was once banned for dual clienting.

- I'm not siding anyone here just to be clear, but just sharing my opinion. 
Ok, he made mistakes from the past. If we put it on real life scenario, he already atoned for it by the sanctions/penalty he received (you have given).
After that. He's clear am I right? That's why he can play again. It's up to him if he learned his lesson or not.
If he follows the rules, good. If still not, then the investigation team or individual should come up with NEW sufficient evidence and not just use the previous one.

So what do we have left ? The Logs. 
In my opinion, The Logs just shows the "TIME LOG IN " of account/character. The Online Duration and Time Log out is not there.
So what if I logged in my Account 1 at 7:03:06 AM to do fishing.
I logged out at 7:03:15 AM.
I checked on the other "shared" account 1 and logged it in at 7:03:42AM for some other matters. ( Forging, WoF, Refining, Checking items, etc)

• Records will show that My account 1 is logged in at 7:03:06 AM
• Records will show that Shared Account 1 is logged in at 7:03:42 AM
  All under the same IP and Device ID.
- initial presumption would be? Dual Client? Right? But no. 

The source is already unreliable because of the lack of information shown.
So I suggest to to update the Account Information History on the website as well (duration online, and log out time to be included)
This will help the GMs/Staffs to solve this kind of issues easier and will have a more reliable source of information.

Good day everyone.

My comment is inside the quoted message.

[Jean]

lmfao, i got banned by dice once , yet we have a player from staff team that was banned in dro due to being gm and hades abuse. yet hes still staff? the past doesnt matter, even if i did dual in dice once i already explained everything and i even have a witness that i was chatting with arhi with same ip and device. as ive said the dice evidence shouldnt be linked to here, cause it is totally unrelated.  players can say why this player is even sp when he got banned in dro as a gm for abuse? regardless, fak it

1. I was cleared of the hades incident by Haze himself due to the simple fact that it was the only option he had at the moment that would stop the 2 week manhunt for me. I did not take any part of that incident even though I was the party leader. If you asked me about this over the years I would have given you all the details but you arent the brightest  or the most social of players so thats on you, im very open about that experience.

2. Why are you bringing this garbage up again after 6 years!? SIX !!! grow the hell up man.

3. Yes I said those things in the chat and no I dont regret it one bit so if you were trying to attack me good luck with that.  I've been on this server long enough to know who's who and how certain people/groups are and im not sugarcoating my words for people that dont deserve a bit of my respect. I always give my brutally honest thoughts about everything (everyone can confirm this) and if that bothers you so much which im seeing it does... nobody is forcing you to stay on the server.

3a. You are indeed very toxic, everyone knows this.


Good day

[seig]

These had been too long discussion and I suggest waiting until the banned is lifted. All sides are given thoughts and evidence just take a break for couple of weeks for playing RO. Visit your friends and family or even go out of town to replenish your inner side. Thank you.

[Xileria]

So, if we will check on the logs, the Accounts are logged will have the same IP address and have multiple Device IDs recorded over the time.
How would you guys evaluate this scenario? if basing on this statement:

"Additionally, upon checking the account history of 2 accused accounts, I found out the account was frequently logged on same device in the past. In short in the eyes of GM's, this account is most likely owned by a single player."

All of the analysis that I put here are "supporting evidence" that support the GM's claim. Just to make it clear, GM's do not ban player based only on single supporting evidence. There should be plenty. I said it multiple times, I understand why you guys don't seem to bother reading it because most of my comments are way too long, but the only time you'll get banned with those supporting evidence I mentioned is if all factors that I've mentioned is applicable to your accounts.


FIRST FACTOR AND I'M SURE IT WONT APPLY TO MOST OTHER ACCOUNTS

1. Were the accounts we are talking about got banned before for dual clienting in any event?

Most likely your answer is NO. So again even if you play in a cafe or whatsoever it will be difficult to ban your accounts just because other factor is telling the GM's that there's a possibility that the accounts are multiple accounts of anyone. 

The reason GM believe that both accounts is owned by aaaaa is because those accounts were once banned for dual clienting under ONE DEVICE AND ONE IP. As much as you want this part to be ignored, it's a valid supporting factor that gave the GMs the reason to push the banning of the account. WITHOUT THIS PART those accounts are unlikely to get banned for it. Why? Because it will be difficult for GM's to assume that the accounts are owned by a single individual.

Why does the previous banning for dual clienting matters?

Simple. Because player are supposed to log only accounts they own. 

Although aaaaa made an appeal because he got banned for it, he didn't bother explaining anything. Naturally if you are caught dual clienting two accounts in an event, the GM will assume that you own those accounts that you used for dual clienting. Why would the GM assume otherwise? Like how would they know you borrow that account especially if the account is being logged frequently in your own device and IP?

And days, weeks and months may pass but the GM will still assume that those accounts are owned by him unless it was explained to them. Again why would they suddenly think that the account is not owned by him anymore? How would they know the specifics about this account? When I myself who knows nothing about this case after checking the login history had to agree that it looks more like it was simply borrowed by another person. Yes these two had an acceptable explanation for it but again does the GM know about their arrangement? No.

If after these accounts were banned for dual clienting back then and aaaaa explained that the he do not own the account or the other person who own the account made an appeal for the account, this won't happen. So to be honest the fault of it lies on aaaaa.

It's as soulkaizer said, if you have a case where you got banned for using 2 accounts especially one that you don't own, try giving the GM a heads up. Otherwise expect the GM to assume that you own those accounts, and be extremely suspicious of them.

Anyway the point is again, even if you play on cafe or wheresoever, it's unlikely for you to get banned for it. It will require the presence of multiple red flags in your account. Again not a single one, but MULTIPLE RED FLAGS. 

Examples:

1. Are the accounts involved could possibly be abusing something?
- Eg. Characters being logged only during guild instance to afk and get rewards. That's a red flag. But again this alone is not enough and GM will need more supporting evidence to prove that those accounts are owned by same players. Who knows maybe it's afk but is not a dual logged. 


2. Does the accounts share similar credentials?
- Having same character names, username, e-mail add patterns etc. This is also a supporting evidence. Even if you are brother and sister, make sure to register your accounts under your own. To be honest, most people, even brother and sister do not normally have similar account credentials. Like people register using their own passwords, email address, username etc. So unless you register for someone it's unlikely to happen. I have multiple accounts and they have different passwords too. 

3. Does the login history show that these accounts are being logged on same computer at the same time?
- this number 3 is very much unlikely to happen in a cafe, you see, even players playing in a cafe normally only login their accounts in 1 device, it would be weird if they logged accounts that they do not own at the same time with their own accounts. A red flag again, that if it happen frequently it is a good evidence.

Again these are only examples. But I hate explaining too many because it will only help players dodge GMs investigation. But again you are unlikely to get banned unless majority of those red flags apply in your account.