Serious Question Though

[Latte]

Ok, like, serious question. What's keeping you guys from PVP? this server is well shaped into a PVP-dominated server, like if you look at your gears eventually it's about damage/ reduction to demi-human. It's the stuff that prepares you for the eventual imminent little skirmish. Tell me, what's keeping you guys from @joinbg? lol. What's wrong with it? I wanna hear your concern.

[Imminent]

Now I actually don't feel like taking this question of yours seriously just bcecause your asking us to  I would however tell you a fact because I don't wanna be providing all obvious informations and I know I would end up doing it anyways HAHA. While BG is supposed to push players into being competitive and teach them so they learn how to do RO objectives like in WoE, there is literally no way for them to have fun or reason to join it if you're seeing it in their POV.

If I someone who's a potato needs to get something from BG such as war badges,victory badge or even divinium ore then I would be forced to join it knowing I won't have fun and have to just torture myself the entire time i'm joining BG rounds. But wait......... Why would I even do that if I could get them elsewhere?

Divinium ore can be obtained through fishing event and regular fishing atm
Victory badge can be obtained through fishing event, Malangdo instance, EET and Guild instance
War badge can be obtained through HHH (BG is still better) and donation which is the easiest way

While all these items in shop look so appealing and cheaper if they're obtained through BG, it just isn't worth the effort of a lot of players since it isn't even enjoyable to be in it. Also the "queue closing" is also partly the reason why I end up not being in it most of the time since I don't know when bg actually becomes active since it just comes out of the blue and I just end up afking and not feeling like joining anymore because I'm always late Lol. I know it was a way to stop those lazy ass players into joining for last minute rewards but we've already adjusted it so players rewards depends on how long they've been in there so I don't get it why its still necessary to prevent any more new players from joining in after few minutes. Also we currently have too many players that don't have any idea how most of the skills even work so we have to go extra miles for them to explain how this one works and how you counter certain situations and classes in game because praying to lord jisas just won't cut it no more. Balance current pvp skills, teaching them step by step, releasing general PvP guides or classes guides might make them to actually hop in and enjoy it more since they'll have more knowledge and know what they should've been doing instead isn't a bad idea. It is not guaranteed it'd increase our current PvP activity but it's one of the many ways we could do to help these poor motherfuckers souls into getting better at the game. I could probably release some guides but i'd use the same excuses like "whY WouLD I EvEn Do ThAt?" and "I'm NoT GeTtinG PaiD foR ThiS ShiT".

Old in game features we have in game now are also one of the reasons why people wouldn't bother no more. What you can get from PvP or BG, you can pretty much just donate your way, buy from other players or get from other features. We have elite scrolls and spirit of heroism that were already enough to decrease PvP so much since getting your characters maxed out would literally take months if done just like how we vets did it back in the days. It was a fucking excuse made by these lazy donators that of course got accepted and got the admin's sympathy because not only they were right about they "don't have much time to play" even though they're both donating like crazy while being so active in the game, the server bills had to be paid somehow too XD. There's just so many shit to blame and point our fingers to on why PvP is dry as it is right now but we could just instead come up with ways to revive it. I guess this is it for our today's episode





p.s there were at least 3 players in the game that managed to get divinium ore through fishing as I was writing this love letter

[Line-]

I would love to see the server to be a PVP active lively and playing with every competent individuals.
I wanna have it like the others as much as posible. But for me BG an PVP arena is not that much rewarding anymore
Ofcourse I wont drained myself spending too much time since I could get everything elsewhere.
Even the Ladder. Its not that much compelling.
Surely everyone has the same feeling about this.

On the other hands. Those farmer only would just wait for a seasonal event since they could just simply have everything including those brand new seasonal equipment in a different ways, (thats way more interesting than a routein work).
Or just simply farm the easier way around for the lazy pips.

I wont mention D_ _ _ _ _ _ n. Its a long repetitive Discussion.

If you could spend little of your time to review all those suggestion I made.
Everything connect to other in game feature which force them to participate other in game features and meet the requirements prior anything else.
That way, old feature wont just fade away if they really were concerned and no more excused for their own indolence.

[celestial]

I usually AFK inside HA before waiting for players, but now I don't enter alot because:
1.) No one enters. (Primary Reason)
2.) HA race requires 10 people now. We rarely even see this number in BG.
3.) Rewards in this arena is the lowest compared to all pvp features (WOE, BG, 500 PVP).

I don't BG alot since:
1.) It is 3rd jobs (I like 2nds BG more)
2.) Even if BG start, only a few join (some modes take forever if only few join), and
3.) Closing of que, hard to join.

I am still hopeful that PVP can be revived someday.

[Xileria]

Now I actually don't feel like taking this question of yours seriously just bcecause your asking us to  I would however tell you a fact because I don't wanna be providing all obvious informations and I know I would end up doing it anyways HAHA. While BG is supposed to push players into being competitive and teach them so they learn how to do RO objectives like in WoE, there is literally no way for them to have fun or reason to join it if you're seeing it in their POV.

If I someone who's a potato needs to get something from BG such as war badges,victory badge or even divinium ore then I would be forced to join it knowing I won't have fun and have to just torture myself the entire time i'm joining BG rounds. But wait......... Why would I even do that if I could get them elsewhere?

Divinium ore can be obtained through fishing event and regular fishing atm
Victory badge can be obtained through fishing event, Malangdo instance, EET and Guild instance
War badge can be obtained through HHH (BG is still better) and donation which is the easiest way

While all these items in shop look so appealing and cheaper if they're obtained through BG, it just isn't worth the effort of a lot of players since it isn't even enjoyable to be in it. Also the "queue closing" is also partly the reason why I end up not being in it most of the time since I don't know when bg actually becomes active since it just comes out of the blue and I just end up afking and not feeling like joining anymore because I'm always late Lol. I know it was a way to stop those lazy ass players into joining for last minute rewards but we've already adjusted it so players rewards depends on how long they've been in there so I don't get it why its still necessary to prevent any more new players from joining in after few minutes. Also we currently have too many players that don't have any idea how most of the skills even work so we have to go extra miles for them to explain how this one works and how you counter certain situations and classes in game because praying to lord jisas just won't cut it no more. Balance current pvp skills, teaching them step by step, releasing general PvP guides or classes guides might make them to actually hop in and enjoy it more since they'll have more knowledge and know what they should've been doing instead isn't a bad idea. It is not guaranteed it'd increase our current PvP activity but it's one of the many ways we could do to help these poor motherfuckers souls into getting better at the game. I could probably release some guides but i'd use the same excuses like "whY WouLD I EvEn Do ThAt?" and "I'm NoT GeTtinG PaiD foR ThiS ShiT".

Old in game features we have in game now are also one of the reasons why people wouldn't bother no more. What you can get from PvP or BG, you can pretty much just donate your way, buy from other players or get from other features. We have elite scrolls and spirit of heroism that were already enough to decrease PvP so much since getting your characters maxed out would literally take months if done just like how we vets did it back in the days. It was a fucking excuse made by these lazy donators that of course got accepted and got the admin's sympathy because not only they were right about they "don't have much time to play" even though they're both donating like crazy while being so active in the game, the server bills had to be paid somehow too XD. There's just so many shit to blame and point our fingers to on why PvP is dry as it is right now but we could just instead come up with ways to revive it. I guess this is it for our today's episode





p.s there were at least 3 players in the game that managed to get divinium ore through fishing as I was writing this love letter

In my opinion it's already dead even before fishing was introduced. Even if the event ends and divinium ore is removed, it won't be active either unless people start it out of boredom.


I understand though that majority of these items are obtainable in another way, Badges and victory badges alone can be obtained through credits and i know some people in the past who spent a lot of credits on them instead of joining BG. Like a single or two person may need a divinium ore, but they can't run BG alone just because they need it. In my opinion regardless of what you can obtain on BG it's still players enjoyment of the pvp that push it to continuously run. What people don't enjoy in BG? Is it the class balance? their unfamiliarity with 3rd skills? Getting ganged by vets as a newbie? Maybe?

There are several attempts to add things that may help BG run well. Even right now insignia that offers a lot of rewards is still available in BG but most people don't care about it. I don't know what can be added there that may help it run for a while.

We may add new things to make it run for a while but it won't last either if people don't feel any sense of enjoyment on it. In the first place the old BG back in days run without most of these reward currently offered by battleground. It run because it's simple, it's fun, you also earn from it.

Lets play bg, return it to 2nd skill, disable all item past item_id 20541 and I think it will run well interestingly.

[Feurille]

It all boils down to two simple reasons.

PVP is just not as fun and it's not as rewarding (not worth it) as it was back then.

Let's ask a different question.

Why did we even do PVP back then?
I had my fair share of PVP back then. I was an AB main and personally LOVED supporting my guild. They all needed an AB so I became one. Every single person in my party/guild had a task to do in an HA war. Every one was essential to counter or damage the enemy team. Everyone had their very own responsibility. An item would be able to counter one then another skill can counter an item. I had to learn those things as I, an AB, was supposed to be immune to most statuses and be able to tank the enemy team to support my team.


HHH was essential to make me elite. I had to do 400 kills as an AB. Imagine that, an AB spamming meteor on HHH just to get an elite weapon.

HA was fun because we actually had competition.

BG was nice cos I got to support my team and not do much xd.

The main reason we did PVP was because:

• We had team mates who were interested to do it.
  

• Well I needed Elite kills...
  
• It was nearly balanced. (Of course we had to nerf some things back then. I remember AV, SGs getting nerfed back then cos they were deemed.. OP.)
  
• PVP was our crowning feature. Our PVP was really fun. EVERYTHING I made back then went to me improving my build.
  

Now, let's go to the present.

When I got back to the server, 3+ months ago, almost ALL my PVP gears are now obsolete. I was gone for three years. That is however, acceptable. Metas change, gears change, things improve and of course, features come up.

But you see, that was a challenge to a returnee like me.

I now had NO idea what to do. So I went into our wiki to check on features I missed. I read it all and some of them are end-game gears. So I decided sure, I could deffo go for those. I even asked people I met in game on new updated builds. As it turns out. My main, Archbishop, is now nearly useless on PVP. My professor needed MORE items. My creator had to focus now on supporting instead. My wanderer needed more expensive items. So on, so fort.

So I farmed. I did PvE to get zeny to afford the things I needed. I got them! I did! It took some time and I managed to do it.

But then.. I hop into WoE and it'll only take a linker a few seconds to kill me if I didn't have the fast response to counter it.

And when  I do it, and someone else chops me down like cake.

Okay, maybe my gears just ain't enough.

Let's keep farming.

Same thing.

Again, and again and again and again.

My trillions worth of gears didn't do shit.

So, what's stopping me from going full on head first into PVP?

• Why would I even go to HA/HHH if I can just buy elite kills.
  
• The classes are no longer as build flexible as they were back then. If I change my build, it's always going to end up having the same outcome anyway. Only one build now works for most classes cos the other skills are just not as good anyway.
  
• Unbalanced characters. Why would I try a new class if I could just f1 someone to death with a linker that can't be dispelled, can only be countered by reflect, and can do so much damage in a few seconds. I'm not even gonna mention the other classes that have too much damage on them because that's for a separate discussion.
  
• Under powered characters. My AB can be replaced by slims now. My GX can die from reflect from RG. Physical classes are in pain. Warlocks aren't that good as they were before. What even are star gladiators? What even are dorams? Forgotten xd How am I going to try other classes lmao.
  
• My gears are going to be obsolete anyway. Even if they won't be, the end-game gears just aren't enough to protect me now from someone who can easily take me down so easily. What even is the point?
  
• Who even enjoys dying in a few seconds upon entering a map/arena. I sure don't xd.
  
• I can just spend my time fishing, doing instances, mining, talking to friends etc instead of putting myself under unnecessary stress. There are just BETTER ways to spend my time in game.
  
• And god oh god. THE LAG. We even had a WoE where our characters were just magically teleporting from one point to another. I'm from SEA. My Ping during that time was at 150-250ms. What about our people outside SEA? Just git gud? XD
  
• TILE BUGS. I know it's an old issue. I'm dropping it in anyway. Had this in the old sever, still have it now. Not easy to work around, at all.
  

Well, that was a lot.
Anyway those are my thoughts. Ta-ta!

[Latte]

LOLL RYAN that was hilarious to read wtf. Anyways, my problem is I don't always agree that 'loot' has to be the prize for joining PVP activity like how long can prizes be the reason? 1 month 2 months? because like you said, there are plenty of other means to get items.

THE BIGGEST QUESTION HERE IS: you guys obviously obtained your gear, like your LEGENDARY SET or your DESTINY SET, they are explicitly made for PVP, what are you guys doing with it? your forged headgear, your enchanted armors, your refined armor with pure elu and divinium ore, + + + what are you guys doing with it? fashion? collecting dust? the bigger question here is, after all that SOH, all that elite kill scroll, all that weapon enchantment, what of it? aren't you guys eventually want to joinbg, join HA, or join WOE fight or something?

Ok, you guys were saying about balancing, sure, we're going to do that sooner or later. But which of the problem is like the MOST URGENT one that makes PVP unbearable? because as unfair as some skills are, BG is quite playable.

And my bigger question here is: "IF we really tweak skills, and classes, would it guarantee PVP activity? like Admins have done that several times in the past and it sure did revive it for some time and then it died down again. It got me thinking at this point like, that maybe it's our mentality that's not fit for PVP anymore. Have you seen that our server is slowly turning into PVE? because the demand for that kind of playstyle is HIGHER THAN EVER. Which is great, don't get me wrong I like it, but I'd still like some versatility from this game remembering that we WERE a PVP-oriented server.

So what are YOU doing with your level 4 elite char?

[Feurille]

LOLL RYAN that was hilarious to read wtf.  Anyways, my problem is I don't always agree that 'loot' has to be the prize for joining PVP activity like how long can prizes be the reason? 1 month 2 months? because like you said, there are plenty of other means to get items.

I think it has to be something that can only be acquired specifically in PVP. Just like how elite kills were, back then. We need another brainstorming thread for that one.

THE BIGGEST QUESTION HERE IS: you guys obviously obtained your gear, like your LEGENDARY SET or your DESTINY SET, they are explicitly made for PVP, what are you guys doing with it? your forged headgear, your enchanted armors, your refined armor with pure elu and divinium ore, + + + what are you guys doing with it? fashion? collecting dust? the bigger question here is, after all that SOH, all that elite kill scroll, all that weapon enchantment, what of it? aren't you guys eventually want to joinbg, join HA, or join WOE fight or something?

I don't even have legendary set or destiny set. Those aren't that good anymore for my builds anyway.
I've specified my reasons above as to why I don't see PVP as interesting as it was back then. I also manually did my elites and heroes.
I do join BG despite the fact that 3rds is obviously broken af for the insignia.
I don't join HA cos there ain't enemies.
WoE is well.. fun honestly. But not if the negativity and toxicity laid upon us after the obviously unbalanced PvP features are there. It's just not worth it anymore. I can't speak for the leads of my guild, but that's my opinion. I'd rather fish!1!11!!1!

Ok, you guys were saying about balancing, sure, we're going to do that sooner or later. But which of the problem is like the MOST URGENT one that makes PVP unbearable? because as unfair as some skills are, BG is quite playable.

BG is playable true, but I'd rather play it competitively not just stand there or run when I see a sorcerer that can vacuum and put me on deep sleep 4ever coming at me.

And my bigger question here is: "IF we really tweak skills, and classes, would it guarantee PVP activity? like Admins have done that several times in the past and it sure did revive it for some time and then it died down again. It got me thinking at this point like, that maybe it's our mentality that's not fit for PVP anymore. Have you seen that our server is slowly turning into PVE? because the demand for that kind of playstyle is HIGHER THAN EVER. Which is great, don't get me wrong I like it, but I'd still like some versatility from this game remembering that we WERE a PVP-oriented server.

Like I said. There is no guarantee. But, we still have to try and get it done. PvP in our server was unique because mostly everything can be countered or nerfed at some point. Our mentality isn't always the case, we are like this because it's what it is. As someone who has only been back for less than 4 months, I can say that I have high hopes for the betterment of our PvP scene. In fact, I do hope for its positive resurrection. PvE should be how we get our zeny to fund our PvP needs.

I'd also love if I could have my AB getting yelled at again cos I forgot to cast blessing on someone. Ah. Good times.

My replies are on this color.