dont play with same IP but different devices, even though 2 people are playing

[aaaaa]

All of the analysis that I put here are "supporting evidence" that support the GM's claim. Just to make it clear, GM's do not ban player based only on single supporting evidence. There should be plenty. I said it multiple times, I understand why you guys don't seem to bother reading it because most of my comments are way too long, but the only time you'll get banned with those supporting evidence I mentioned is if all factors that I've mentioned is applicable to your accounts.


FIRST FACTOR AND I'M SURE IT WONT APPLY TO MOST OTHER ACCOUNTS

1. Were the accounts we are talking about got banned before for dual clienting in any event?

Most likely your answer is NO. So again even if you play in a cafe or whatsoever it will be difficult to ban your accounts just because other factor is telling the GM's that there's a possibility that the accounts are multiple accounts of anyone. 

The reason GM believe that both accounts is owned by aaaaa is because those accounts were once banned for dual clienting under ONE DEVICE AND ONE IP. As much as you want this part to be ignored, it's a valid supporting factor that gave the GMs the reason to push the banning of the account. WITHOUT THIS PART those accounts are unlikely to get banned for it. Why? Because it will be difficult for GM's to assume that the accounts are owned by a single individual.

Why does the previous banning for dual clienting matters?

Simple. Because player are supposed to log only accounts they own. 

Although aaaaa made an appeal because he got banned for it, he didn't bother explaining anything. Naturally if you are caught dual clienting two accounts in an event, the GM will assume that you own those accounts that you used for dual clienting. Why would the GM assume otherwise? Like how would they know you borrow that account especially if the account is being logged frequently in your own device and IP?

And days, weeks and months may pass but the GM will still assume that those accounts are owned by him unless it was explained to them. Again why would they suddenly think that the account is not owned by him anymore? How would they know the specifics about this account? When I myself who knows nothing about this case after checking the login history had to agree that it looks more like it was simply borrowed by another person. Yes these two had an acceptable explanation for it but again does the GM know about their arrangement? No.

If after these accounts were banned for dual clienting back then and aaaaa explained that the he do not own the account or the other person who own the account made an appeal for the account, this won't happen. So to be honest the fault of it lies on aaaaa.

It's as soulkaizer said, if you have a case where you got banned for using 2 accounts especially one that you don't own, try giving the GM a heads up. Otherwise expect the GM to assume that you own those accounts, and be extremely suspicious of them.

Anyway the point is again, even if you play on cafe or wheresoever, it's unlikely for you to get banned for it. It will require the presence of multiple red flags in your account. Again not a single one, but MULTIPLE RED FLAGS. 

Examples:

1. Are the accounts involved could possibly be abusing something?
- Eg. Characters being logged only during guild instance to afk and get rewards. That's a red flag. But again this alone is not enough and GM will need more supporting evidence to prove that those accounts are owned by same players. Who knows maybe it's afk but is not a dual logged. 


2. Does the accounts share similar credentials?
- Having same character names, username, e-mail add patterns etc. This is also a supporting evidence. Even if you are brother and sister, make sure to register your accounts under your own. To be honest, most people, even brother and sister do not normally have similar account credentials. Like people register using their own passwords, email address, username etc. So unless you register for someone it's unlikely to happen. I have multiple accounts and they have different passwords too. 

3. Does the login history show that these accounts are being logged on same computer at the same time?
- this number 3 is very much unlikely to happen in a cafe, you see, even players playing in a cafe normally only login their accounts in 1 device, it would be weird if they logged accounts that they do not own at the same time with their own accounts. A red flag again, that if it happen frequently it is a good evidence.

Again these are only examples. But I hate explaining too many because it will only help players dodge GMs investigation. But again you are unlikely to get banned unless majority of those red flags apply in your account.

XD, honestly if you guys are compared to real life, you guys are like real like corrupt policemen. ive already said so much, i already said check chat logs (unfortunately this didnt work). i did have a witness = harly, starry that i was actively talking the whole day in PT (u guys neglected it). you guys forcefully make the dice incident a part of this issue, when in fact i already stated a million times that if i would dual, i would use vpn, wouldn't put the sub char 1 cell beside my main char. 

not enough evidence? were u sleeping the entire day yesterday? read page 1 to 4? it's funny that normal players (malaphar, celestial, tyrannical) have better intuition than our staff team. yet u guys ask me why i would prefer i talk about this in public. simple, normal players have better judgement than u guys. 

u force ur evidence with ur login times - i already said why this is so, internet issue with included SS. dice dual = i already explained i admit it and i was even hiding my char with a newbie char (diff pt, diff guild). lastly, the sub char in fishing is so faking obvious if i wanted to hide it as a dual.

[Ohjhelle3]

from my observation from a neutral perspective, GMs does not even have direct evidence that this player is truly using dual.

Your evidence is faulty, you rely on IP when the topic poster already stated that he would have same IP alongside his brother, and he proved that his internet connection was always malfunctioning which resulted into same login times.

And yes, regarding dual, he already state that when he was using dual in dice, he was trying to hide the char, make it look like a complete noob. The suspected alt in fishing however was too obvious. If not mistaken, same PT, same GUILD, same map location, and yet your first suspicion is dual? Are u guys like in elementary school?

From my perspective, GM's dont have enough evidence to prove this matter, but all IP and login times.

[celestial]

Again, I can attest that the players banned are different players. We are talking to each other in the same pt chat. We should not use past violations as evidence to punish a player for a new accusation. You cannot say accused killed B, because he killed A before. The only effect of the conviction for the previous killing is that it can increase the penalty for the 2nd killing IF proven that the accused killed B also.

As of now, based on the evidence/testimony presented by both sides, there is still a doubt on whether the accused violated the rule. In other words, his guilt has not yet been proven beyond reasonable doubt. I do not understand why they should remain banned.

[Green Cross]

lol look at these people coming in to try and save you

neutral perspective my ass. we all know your also friends with these guys

this is so pathetic tbh. whats the point in making this thread when you cant even understand every explanation that the gm will say? you guys keep bringing the conversation back to stage 1 when the gm is always trying say why they came to the conclusion of a ban
i have read it and i can say that you guys are idiots who come in here acting like you are making good argument when all you guys do is not give anything to the discussion and keep refuting everything they say even though they are good reason and good conclusion.

they have reason to believe that you are using it because you have been seen using the same thing multiple times before
you guys always act like the gm team is against you when in reality you guys are just really bad at following the rules. its simple as that and when you get caught you yell foul and say that the gm is bad at their job. if you dont like the gm just leave. dont think the gm will tolerate you and your toxic
they are being merciful for not perma banning you at this point with the toxicty you have shown so far

---

Again, I can attest that the players banned are different players. We are talking to each other in the same pt chat. We should not use past violations as evidence to punish a player for a new accusation. You cannot say accused killed B, because he killed A before. The only effect of the conviction for the previous killing is that it can increase the penalty for the 2nd killing IF proven that the accused killed B also.

As of now, based on the evidence/testimony presented by both sides, there is still a doubt on whether the accused violated the rule. In other words, his guilt has not yet been proven beyond reasonable doubt. I do not understand why they should remain banned.

i disagree

[Xileria]

XD, honestly if you guys are compared to real life, you guys are like real like corrupt policemen. ive already said so much, i already said check chat logs (unfortunately this didnt work). i did have a witness = harly, starry that i was actively talking the whole day in PT (u guys neglected it). you guys forcefully make the dice incident a part of this issue, when in fact i already stated a million times that if i would dual, i would use vpn, wouldn't put the sub char 1 cell beside my main char. 

not enough evidence? were u sleeping the entire day yesterday? read page 1 to 4? it's funny that normal players  (malaphar, celestial, tyrannical) have better intuition than our staff team. yet u guys ask me why i would prefer i talk about this in public. simple, normal players have better judgement than u guys. 

u force ur evidence with ur login times - i already said why this is so, internet issue with included SS. dice dual = i already explained i admit it and i was even hiding my char with a newbie char (diff pt, diff guild). lastly, the sub char in fishing is so faking obvious if i wanted to hide it as a dual.

sure perhaps if you can understand that none of those you said actually works as supporting evidence.

I hate going 1 by 1 on this.

you got witness that you are actively talking to someone? Is that the evidence? How does it help your case? I don't know how many times I repeated it to you honestly, at this point, I'm not sure if you are even bothering understanding what I keep on saying.

YOUR ACCOUNT WAS BANNED UNDER THE SUSPICION THAT YOU OWNED THE ACCOUNT. IF SOMEONE BORROWED YOUR ACCOUNT OR USING YOUR ACCOUNT THAT TIME IT DOESN'T PROVE THAT YOU DONT OWN THE ACCOUNT. It only means that someone else is using that account that time. Do you get it now?

The only way you can get away with your ban is IF YOU CAN PROVE THAT YOU DO NOT OWN THAT ACCOUNT. BECAUSE YOU WERE CAUGHT FISHING UNDER THE SAME IP WHILE THE GM BELIEVE THAT YOU OWN BOTH ACCOUNTS.


But how are you going to do that? There are supporting evidence showing that the account was frequently being logged in your device in the past and even in the present. You can claim its not yours and it was the other person but other than that claim what else support that claim?

You might be able to explain why this and that happened but as I said its up to the GM whether they will believe you or not. AFTERALL your claim is not backed by anything that can be verified. 

Now your other claim such as why would I do this and why would I do that if I am planning to abuse something? The answer is simple, you could be confident enough that logging the account in different device is enough to avoid getting banned for it. Isn't it? Because some players have same confidence while some simply do not understand the rules regarding multiclient. They thought it's fine as long that they use multiple device.

when you got caught using dual in dice your confidence come from the fact that you make your char looks like a newbie? Then what's the difference on having confidence of not getting caught if you logged on a different device this time? 

Do you think you are the only one with similar case? There are some people who got banned for a different multiple client abuse. They also use different devices. The only difference is that the red flags in their account is different than yours. Some even admitted that they own the other account but tried to get away by saying that during that time another person is controlling their other account. Still if you understand what I just said earlier you'll realize why their ban was kept. 

I understand if you feel that you are too smart to be like them who tried cheating just by simply using multiple devices, but I don't think GM will bother estimating how smart you think you are. So using that as "evidence" is not good enough.

---

from my observation from a neutral perspective, GMs does not even have direct evidence that this player is truly using dual.

Your evidence is faulty, you rely on IP when the topic poster already stated that he would have same IP alongside his brother, and he proved that his internet connection was always malfunctioning which resulted into same login times.

And yes, regarding dual, he already state that when he was using dual in dice, he was trying to hide the char, make it look like a complete noob. The suspected alt in fishing however was too obvious. If not mistaken, same PT, same GUILD, same map location, and yet your first suspicion is dual? Are u guys like in elementary school?

From my perspective, GM's dont have enough evidence to prove this matter, but all IP and login times.

If you can read. The problem that I am talking about regarding his login history is the fact that HE IS LOGGING BOTH ACCOUNT ON SAME DEVICE FREQUENTLY IN THE PAST. It's not as simple as your bad assumption that they just logged closely at the same time. Anyone investigating his case neutrally will assume that he own the account if it used to be frequently logged in 1 DEVICE WITH HIS OTHER ACCOUNT. If you still don't get it, i'm sorry.

[aaaaa]

sure perhaps if you can understand that none of those you said actually works as supporting evidence.

I hate going 1 by 1 on this.

you got witness that you are actively talking to someone? Is that the evidence? How does it help your case? I don't know how many times I repeated it to you honestly, at this point, I'm not sure if you are even bothering understanding what I keep on saying.

YOUR ACCOUNT WAS BANNED UNDER THE SUSPICION THAT YOU OWNED THE ACCOUNT. IF SOMEONE BORROWED YOUR ACCOUNT OR USING YOUR ACCOUNT THAT TIME IT DOESN'T PROVE THAT YOU DONT OWN THE ACCOUNT. It only means that someone else is using that account that time. Do you get it now?

The only way you can get away with your ban is IF YOU CAN PROVE THAT YOU DO NOT OWN THAT ACCOUNT. BECAUSE YOU WERE CAUGHT FISHING UNDER THE SAME IP WHILE THE GM BELIEVE THAT YOU OWN BOTH ACCOUNTS.


But how are you going to do that? There are supporting evidence showing that the account was frequently being logged in your device in the past and even in the present. You can claim its not yours and it was the other person but other than that claim what else support that claim?

You might be able to explain why this and that happened but as I said its up to the GM whether they will believe you or now. AFTERALL your claim is not backed by anything that can be verified. 

Now your other claim such as why would I do this and why would I do that if I am planning to abuse something? The answer is simple, you could be confident enough that logging the account in different device is enough to avoid getting banned for it. Isn't it? 

when you got caught using dual in dice your confidence come from the fact that you make your char looks like a newbie? Then what's the difference on having confidence of not getting caught if you logged on a different device this time? 

Do you think you are the only one with similar case? There are some people who got banned for a different multiple client abuse. They also use different devices. The only difference is that the red flags in their account is different than yours. Some even admitted that they own the other account but tried to get away by saying that during that time another person is controlling their other account. Still if you understand what I just said earlier you'll realize why their ban was kept. 

I understand if you feel that you are too smart to be like them who tried cheating just by simply using multiple devices, but I don't think GM will bother estimating how smart you think you are. So using that as "evidence" is not good enough.

lol, believe in what u think is right. as i and many others have said, your evidence is not good enough because it is based on IP, dice incident that shouldn’t even be a part of this case. i said a million times that i was communicating with arhi the entire day that time. is it my fault you guys didnt assess before banning by asking to talk or do a specific action? remove my gepard ban rn, i can even talk to you guys alongside my brother ingame while moving/pvp at the same time to prove u. that is not enough evidence for u? then what is? LOL.

[Xileria]

lol, believe in what u think is right. as i and many others have said, your evidence is not good enough because it is based on IP, dice incident that shouldn’t even be a part of this case. i said a million times that i was communicating with arhi the entire day that time. is it my fault you guys didnt assess before banning by asking to talk or do a specific action? remove my gepard ban rn, i can even talk to you guys alongside my brother ingame while moving/pvp at the same time to prove u. that is not enough evidence for u? then what is? LOL.

yeah same million times I explained why it won't work? Like until now you don't get it? So what if the GM Tested the characters to be responding? Does it prove you don't own both accounts. Like I have Xileria1 and Xileria2 account? If I asked someone to use that account is that good enough evidence that I didn't own the account? Your burden is as simple as proving that you don't own the account and you still can't get it. The problem is whether GM will believe you or not because again in my own neutral investigation alone, evidence is showing that you are as good as the owner of the account as you logged it more frequently than the person that you are claiming it to be its owner. He is saying that he got inactive so the account is mostly used by you? Then does it change the ownership of the account? No. If someone gave me their account while they are inactive. That account will be considered as my property? Do you get it? I have multiple accounts from my friends right now. If I used them for fishing with multiple clients I am still gonna get considered to be its owner now. I don't know how hard that thing is to understand.

[Quaoar]

lol, believe in what u think is right. as i and many others have said, your evidence is not good enough because it is based on IP, dice incident that shouldn’t even be a part of this case. i said a million times that i was communicating with arhi the entire day that time. is it my fault you guys didnt assess before banning by asking to talk or do a specific action? remove my gepard ban rn, i can even talk to you guys alongside my brother ingame while moving/pvp at the same time to prove u. that is not enough evidence for u? then what is? LOL.

reeding this dumpster was entertaining. thank u. coming from another neutral perspective, urr the idiot here who confuses ip address with  what xilera is presenting, the device itself. u are using ur accounts a lot in your owned devices or computers.. the devices hav their own id, and u fail to understand that.. u play wit those accounts a lot so its only natural to assume that u own them.

keep on pushing ur ip address argument. u look smarter by the minute.

[aaaaa]

yeah same million times I explained why it won't work? Like until now you don't get it? So what if the GM Tested the characters to be responding? Does it prove you don't own both accounts. Like I have Xileria1 and Xileria2 account? If I asked someone to use that account is that good enough evidence that I didn't own the account? Your burden is as simple as proving that you don't own the account and you still can't get it. The problem is whether GM will believe you or not because again in my own neutral investigation alone, evidence is showing that you are as good as the owner of the account as you logged it more frequently than the person that you are claiming it to be its owner. He is saying that he got inactive so the account is mostly used by you? Then does it change the ownership of the account? No. If someone gave me their account while they are inactive. That account will be considered as my property? Do you get it? I have multiple accounts from my friends right now. If I used them for fishing with multiple clients I am still gonna get considered to be its owner now. I don't know how hard that thing is to understand.

who cares who owns the account? is it even related? we are talking about dual with diff device, not who owns the account? what do u think is the best evidence that you or any other gm can do to determine whether someone is dual with different or same device? obviously u talk to them ingame or ask them to do a specific action together. you dont just ban base on IP, or login times, or previous incidents that are unrelated. why do u think i am so confident upon saying that i have communicated with arhi the entire day alongside harly? cause im telling the truth. LOL.

ok my question is, did u or any other GMs try to communicate to us to determine whether it is dual before banning? simply put, No.

[Feurille]

I like apples